User talk:Grizzlyadamz
I have no idea what a navbox is nor what the first half of that means, but if I see − {{Clothing}} I'll replace it with {{Clothing Nav}}
got it.
No, no. Forget about it. That isn't needed anymore. In fact, that won't work anymore.
A few minutes after I posted all that I decided to simply update the Clothing template with the new Clothing Nav I created, and deleted Clothing Nav. It was stupid to have them both; too much work that was easily avoided. That's why I reverted my comment here, as it wasn't necessary any more. So, take it as if it never happened.
I think I deleted all the instances where I mention the need for this change. But, just in case, let me stress that it's no longer necessary. Don't update the pages with {{Clothing Nav}}.
The template now makes use of the navbox one, which is the default way in mediawiki (and wikipedia) to display this kind of info. It's main advantage over the previous version is that it's easier to edit and update by contributors, regardless of the skill level. It's also easier to set up new ones. And you can show/hide it at will. Among other things.
Check the template yourself.
--Kenoxite (talk) 07:54, 2 October 2013 (PDT)
Clothing params
THANK YOU! That's a big help, makes it much easier!
- You're welcome. But check Talk:Clothing1 for new info. Also, PM in forums. All this is going to get even easier. --Kenoxite (talk) 07:51, 3 October 2013 (PDT)
Further changes to clothing item pages
A quick note about a couple things that have changed and that you should now take into consideration when updating new clothing items.
Check talk:clothing1 for an updated example, or light survivor suit for a live one (that one has quite a lot of flags and covers parameters, so it's a good example).
You'll notice several differences from yesterday:
- "covers" parameter is now split, with each one in the array in its respective parameter (so, cover1, cover2, etc). If there's only one element in the array, then only covers1 is used
- New "flag" parameters. Works the same way as "covers". So, flag1, flag2, etc. If no flag is present, then don't input anything (don't use flag1=<empty|null|etc> as that will cause problems later)
- new "description" parameter. The description found in the {{quote|blabla}} must be moved to its own parameter, and the whole quote line deleted.
- Place a == Notes == subsection after the }}. This is done to simplify updating pages by users that just want to add hints or any other kind of note.
Do not worry about updating the items you were working on yesterday. I'm in the process of updating them myself, so you can concentrate on keep updating new ones. I've updated up to top hat (went from top to bottom). Will continue later.
Finally, you'll notice other changes. The template:clothes page has been extended and proper navboxes are used now on the side. The auto-generated description is so far just a placeholder, but will eventually end up being similar to the one used for the creatures (template:enemydescription). Check any creature page for an example of how the raw info is parsed (like in zombie).
The former means that you don't need (shouldn't) add any technical info in the notes (like explaining the meaning of flags, etc), as that will be automatically handled by the mentioned template (again, check template:enemydescription), once it's finished (tomorrow, quite likely).
I think that's all. If not, I'll come back here later.
--Kenoxite (talk) 06:11, 4 October 2013 (PDT)
Hmm, the description template seems a bet verbose, at least for clothing items whose stats are known and important in-game; players are already able to interpret the raw figures, so providing them as concisely as possible, I imagine, would improve user experience.
I figure explaining what the flags are, or specifying things like rain&smoke protection, (things that even an experienced player might not know off the top of their head), these make the best use of the notes area under the description. The side bar does a good enough (read:excellent) job on it's own with reporting the numbers.
--As anecdotal evidence, when I go to compare clothes, I go to the clothing page because it lets me see all the options at once, speeds up the process. I only go to sub-pages to get more detailed information, (will this bandana protect my face? Is this survivor suit waterproof? Do these ballistic glasses protect me from the sun? That kind of thing).
On a related note, I think a table for EP smoke protection would do wonders for the smoke page- just add a link to it from any item that can be worn on the mouth & voila.
The rows would be EP rating of a mouthpiece, and the columns would be for minor smoke, moderate smoke, and dense smoke. I've already plugged in the probabilities for 1 2 7 (&16) EP and can work on the others if you think it's a good idea.
Likewise pasting the equations for warmth/wet & explaining them in their respective page(s) would be handy. Seeing as how it's a more involved function now, I think it's the best we can do.
-Also, the BP/CP for steeltoed boots doesn't seem to be displaying properly on clothing1; it works fine on it's own page, (40/40), but on clothing1 it's showing up as 24/24.
The verbosity of the auto-generated descriptions can be tweaked at any time but, in any case, there's just so much you can automatically derive from the raw data, so it won't be as big as that of enemies. The important feature of that template is that it allows the updating of all the pages which use it by just editing that single template. This is, as you might guess, extremely handy. Once it's properly set-up it can be adjusted until we find the most optimal display of data (for example, displaying the flag descriptions in a bullet list, instead of a single paragraph).
As the template is able to read and interpret any data we're passing to it, things like the tables you mention can be eventually implemented. It's certainly not limited to the display of a text description. It requires, though, some mediawiki parsing to translate the game source formulas. Check this page to learn how. Pick a page as your testing ground and experiment there. It's actually quite easy once you get used to the quirkiness of mediawiki parsing.
All this makes placing that kind of info manually in the Notes subsection not optimal. Not only it gives the user who is updating extra manual work, but the info present there can/will become irrelevant as soon as the new stable goes live, forcing that user (or whoever is up for the task) to manually update every single page where that now outdated info is present. On the other hand, when placing that kind of information in the template, you only need to update that template to update all those pages.
Overall, what I'm trying to create here (in the clothing pages) is a sort of default framework to use as a base and guide in order to update other sections as well (consumables, tools, etc) in the same way. Focusing on simplicity, easy of use and update, and avoid having to input duplicate info (individual pages and list pages) by automating the most complex processes while simplifying the item pages themselves.
Also, remember to place the == Notes == subsection in all the items you update, or we'll have to go through them again.
--Kenoxite (talk) 08:20, 4 October 2013 (PDT)
Regarding the discrepancies between the protection data between the individual pages and the clothing1 page, I'll look into it tomorrow. It's quite likely that I borked the formulas when moving the data around. Should be an easy fix. --Kenoxite (talk) 08:28, 4 October 2013 (PDT)
Hah, well I reserve the right to object (and tell you so) even after you've poured your heart & soul into making it nice.
Also: just noticed the same discrepancy with army jacket, so when you get that roundtuit, it might not be isolated.
Fair enough. But I will then keep pouring broken english over you to explain the reasoning of my actions around here (which sometimes are purpose driven).
The problem with the display of protection parameters in clothing1 is solved now (just had to update a parameter in row/clothing1 that I forgot to). I've been working on template:clothes and it's almost finished. It only needs one extra template that will gives you a more or less complete list of how good is the EP of the item when confronting smoke, tear gas, etc), and correct, tweak and expand the descriptions of the item flags (for instance, the "varsize" flag will probably show the required skill and materials needed to make it fit based on the materials of the item -cotton, etc->sewing kit, etc plus rags, etc, plastic, etc->soldering iron plus plastic chunks, etc).
One final note: it's always better to update a section by updating or creating the item pages in the order the items are listed in the json. This makes keeping track of what's updated and what's not way easier than jumping around the json. It also facilitates the coordination of the updating process between two or more persons.
--Kenoxite (talk) 06:08, 5 October 2013 (PDT)
You sir are a machine.